Thursday, March 25, 2010

Response to Right Wing Hatred

Saved for posterity a response to a Facebook message about ignoring Right Wing hatred:

The vast majority of the hate is coming from the right. They are the ones being fed conspiracy stories to ratchet up the hate (via a 24/7 news network and increasingly papers bought by Murdoch and even billboards calling for civil war). Sure there is bad feelings from both sides, but one side isn't actively dialing up the hate.

I see no reason for the left to be violent now as we "won", it may be a crappy bill, but at least it is passed and can be improved in time (I agree that if Republicans try to kill the bill with a public option amendment, Democrats should vote it in). Unless crazy gas is being pumped into all the liberals homes; does the right think that instantly everyone on the left got the message to go crazy threatening legislators from their own party?




"The following books were found in Adkisson's home during a police search:[9]
Liberalism is a Mental Disorder by radio talk show host Michael Savage
Let Freedom Ring: Winning the War of Liberty over Liberalism by talk show host Sean Hannity
The O'Reilly Factor: The Good, the Bad, and the Completely Ridiculous in American Life by television talk show host Bill O'Reilly
In his manifesto, Adkisson also included the Democratic members of the House and Senate,[11] and the 100 People Who Are Screwing Up America [11] of Bernard Goldberg in his list of wished-for targets." [Wikipedia]

See also abortion clinic bombings and death threats against doctors. Birthers. Sarah Palin.

Wow I just heard about this shit, police and soldiers recruited by a group called the Oath Keepers to abandon their oath to obey the President and the chain of command. Where were the Oath Keepers when Bush was executing illegal orders and war crimes?

Another summary of violence on the right and a good explanation on why they are wrong, i.e. the elites on the right are actively spurring them to hurt their own interests in the name of returning to power.
[Note an error here, the hanged Census worker was ruled an suicide for insurance scheme last I heard. There are also some dead links, apologies. I will try and follow these up for accuracy.]
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Thursday, August 6, 2009

Dear Mr. President in scary red text

Argument:

Once again, out of the blue, I recieve a political chain email. Once again, the claims are vague with no citations allowing rebuttle. Once again I try and manage, to buttle on. This email also strikes me as very passive agressive, but I guess that's besides the point, other than I took a vastly different tone with this email response. I thought it was only common internet ediquate that chain emails are supposed to be from your Mom or Dad, who don't know any better. Take political discussions to blogs and forums where there can be actual dialogue.

Also, in my response I forgot that the budget might be a point. I'd just have pointed people to the military budget.

The Chainmail [names and advertisements redacted]:

----- Original Message -----

From: *

To: *

Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 9:21 AM

Subject: Mr. President

Dear Mr. President, Senate and House of Representatives:


I'm planning to move my family and extended family (18-20 mouths) into Mexico for my health, and I would like to ask you to assist me.

We're planning to simply walk across the border from the U.S. into Mexico , and we'll need your help to make a few arrangements.


We plan to skip all the legal stuff like visas, passports, immigration quotas and laws. I'm sure they handle those things the same way you do here.


So, would you mind telling your buddy, President Calderon, that I'm on my way over? Please let him know that I will be expecting the following:

1. Free medical care for my entire family.

2. English-speaking government bureaucrats for all services
I might need, whether I use them or not.

3. All Mexico government forms need to also be printed in English.

4. I want my kids to be taught Spanish
by English-speaking (bi-lingual) teachers.

5. Schools need to include classes on American culture and history.

6. I want my kids to see the American flag on one of the flag poles
at their school.

7. Please plan to feed my kids at school for both breakfast and lunch.

8. I will need a local Mexican driver's license so I can get easy
access to government services.

9. I do plan to get a car and drive in Mexico, but, I don't plan
to purchase car insurance,
and I probably won't make any special effort to learn local traffic laws.

10. In case one of the Mexican police officers does not get the memo
from their president to leave me alone,
please be sure that every patrol car has at least one English-speaking officer.

11. I plan to fly the U.S. flag from my house top, put U S. flag decals on my car, and have a gigantic celebration on July 4th.

I do not want any complaints or negative comments from the locals.

12. I would also like to have a nice job without paying any taxes,
or have any labor or tax laws enforced on any business I may start.

13. Please have the president tell all the Mexican people to be
extremely nice and never say a critical things about me or my family,
or about the strain we might place on their economy.


I know this is an easy request because you already do all these things for all his people who come to the U.S. from Mexico . I am sure that President Calderon won't mind returning the favor if you ask him nicely.

Thank you so much for your kind help.

Sincerely, US Citizen & Taxpayer

Emailed response:


1. Free medical care for my entire family.


This is a product of the fact that hospitals' cannot deny treatment for lack of ability to pay. The emotional argument could be turned around if you got mugged, your wallet stolen, and stabbed in the throat so you couldn't talk, you'd hardly want to be held up in the emergency room while doing charades to communicate what insurance you have. If the counter-argument is that you'd be held up anyways due to a full emergency room with non-emergency cases, see below.

If the complaint (which isn't specific at all since the chain email is so passive aggressive) is some non-emergency medicaid/medicare type program, ideally we would want all persons residing here to receive adequate preventative medicine. One, to prevent non-emergency cases from filling emergency rooms (or to complicate to the point of being emergency - think diabetes cases loosing extremities). Two, to prevent a general lack of healthiness from causing disease to spread the the rest of the population. Three, even for those "less that optimally documented", the economy is bolstered by healthy workers. Most likely the "family" will be 2nd generation and will grow up to be or as citizens. I'd like them to be healthy and educated.

2. English-speaking government bureaucrats for all services
I might need, whether I use them or not.


Without citation, these are all hard to argue against. For example here, there should be some capability for the government to communicate with people with different language needs, perhaps in the case of emergency services on a readily available basis. This is what comes of living in a melting pot, with all the advantages that brings.

3. All Mexico government forms need to also be printed in English.


Ehh, in the near future, all forms should be online/electronic, so just throw them through a translation service.

4. I want my kids to be taught Spanish
by English-speaking (bi-lingual) teachers.


Maybe Helen Keller could be taught language with no common basis for communication, but I'd like to think since we have an easier way, we'd teach in the described manner. Also, see #1, these 2nd generation immigrants being educated would be better for us then them not being so.

5. Schools need to include classes on American culture and history.


Seeing as we are their "neighbor to the north", I'd assume some amount would be necessary.

6. I want my kids to see the American flag on one of the flag poles
at their school.


Well, yeah, obviously not this. If this is referring to the Montebello School incident, this was not standard policy but a protest action.

7. Please plan to feed my kids at school for both breakfast and lunch.


I believe the research has pretty consistently shown that diet has a significant impact in school performance. Going back to point in #1. If kids are in school, we need to teach them. I don't have a university library's subscriptions to do research with, but a short search on scholar.google.com, turned up http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0002822395003061.

8. I will need a local Mexican driver's license so I can get easy
access to government services.


Or maybe to drive?

9. I do plan to get a car and drive in Mexico, but, I don't plan
to purchase car insurance,
and I probably won't make any special effort to learn local traffic laws.


Expect fines if you're caught, same as everybody else that makes that decision?

Ironically, the desire not have the government communicate brought up in points #2 & #3 would contribute to this problem.

10. In case one of the Mexican police officers does not get the memo
from their president to leave me alone,
please be sure that every patrol car has at least one English-speaking officer.


Once again, no citation. The Gates incident?

If the local services were dealing with a large minority I think they should adapt to better service both the minority and so the majority.

11. I plan to fly the U.S. flag from my house top, put U S. flag decals on my car, and have a gigantic celebration on July 4th. I do not want any complaints or negative comments from the locals.


This happens. If given a chance integration happens.


In case that link doesn't go through it's a cite from Italian-American Folklore By Frances M. Malpezzi, William M. Clements pg 107.

In 1909, Columbus Day became a legal holiday. New York Italian Americans staged three parades that year--two in Brooklyn and one in Manhattan, the latter characterized by the New Your Times as "the most brilliant parade ever given by Italians in this city." Italian residents of the East Side also marked the occasion on a domestic level: "Not a window in the Italian districts but held an Italian or American flag. And in many a window was the picture of Columbus."

Notice Italian flags. Somehow Italian-Americans are a well integrated part of the American melting pot.

12. I would also like to have a nice job without paying any taxes,

or have any labor or tax laws enforced on any business I may start.


Without a cite, I have no idea what's being argued. But from some short research this doesn't seem to be the case.

Illegal Immigrants Are Bolstering Social Security With Billions


By paying U.S. taxes, illegal migrants risk deportation



Not having labor or tax laws apply seems just plain wrong. Unless it's some weird multinational conglomerate issues, where the problem is a loophole.

13. Please have the president tell all the Mexican people to be

extremely nice and never say a critical things about me or my family,
or about the strain we might place on their economy.


Ehh.

Also, OMG! Red text!

Peace,
[fugacity]
Posted by at No comments:

Monday, March 17, 2008

In answer to the Social Security for 'Illegal' Aliens chain email

Disclaimer:

Please take this email as a friendly and informative response to this whole chain of emails and not to be addressing any one person in particular. Feel free to send this email response to persons who have forwarded the email to you or to you have forwarded the email (i.e. up and down the chain). If you want to comment I just set up a blog at http://fugacity-blog.blogspot.com (it was about time to do so, join the e-revolution, and all). The blog is currently serving no advertising and I have no plans to do so. [As it has been over a year since this posting, and I would not be deriving ads from a chain email, I now feel free to change my stance on this.] With that out of the way, here is my response.

Argument:

This is a chain mail that cites no active legislation, past legislation, Senators, or any time period other than the vague "this week". It seems to have been cribbed from past chain emails on this subject, but stripped of any references that would allow a person to track down what legislation was being referred to. It may in fact be a "push poll" designed to soften up voters for attack ads on Democratic Congress persons. Legislation that I tracked down shows that the Senate has now voted positively (as of 10/23/2007) to remove Social Security benefits earned by illegal immigrants when they become legal, if this ever were to be a cause for concern in the first place. Since one can so rapidly acquire Social Security credits, in little as 10 years of work, its no problem for an alien to become naturalized or otherwise a legal worker, work for 10 years, and then have the ability to retire with benefits. I'm sure the number of 52-61 year old, illegal immigrant workers who have more that 10 years work experience or underage workers who would want to be unemployed all those years before retirement are very, very small. So as long as one can become a legal worker (citizen, lawful alien, etc.), it's almost guaranteed you'd be able to acquire enough credits before retirement age (62 or later). So why would counting of pre-legal credits be necessary to reign in? On one hand is the principle of the work relationship and on the other is what I'm sure is just a nightmare in accounting. From the practical angle, this is probably good law to just ignore the muddled, pre-legal Social Security shenanigans and start the work record clean. But, I wouldn't want to see any legal worker start to suffer because they happened to get squeezed by the rules, not that I think this is very likely.

I'll not comment on Social Security disability as I think the email best seems to be addressing Social Security retirement.

In addition to the Social Security claim, the line in the petition about demanding "that there not be any amnesty given to illegals, NO free services, no funding, no payments to and for illegal immigrants" is totally besides the point about Social Security, whether you are for or against these issues.

References:

A google search for "chain letter senate social security illegal":
  • This "Social Security" chain email description on Sophos, a major independent, unbiased Internet security firm.
    • "The following chain letter began to be distributed across the internet in early 2007, asking people to sign a petition. Petitions distributed via internet email reveal individual's personal details, and are unlikely to carry weight with the authorities." [Sophos]
    • "PETITION FOR: President Bush

      Mr. President:
      The petition below is to protest against the recent vote of the
      senate which was to allow illegal aliens access to our social
      security!      " [ibid]
    • "Sophos is a developer and vendor of security software and hardware, including anti-virus, anti-spyware, anti-spam and Network Access Control for desktops, servers, email systems and other network gateways." [Wikipedia page on Sophos]
    • "Unlike other security companies, Sophos does not produce anti-virus and anti-spam solutions for home users, but instead has always focused on the business market." [ibid]
  • About.com lists similar petitions under its urban legends section.
  • A number of forums and blogs discussing this category of chain email as not being of much value.
A google search for "senate social security illegal":
  • Snopes lists this issue twice, once in a 2006 article as ineffective and once in 2006 article as partially true. As you will see in the research section below, this appears to no longer be relevant, if it ever was.
    • "Snopes ... is a website that is the most widely-known resource for validating or debunking urban legends, Internet rumors, email forwards, and other such stories of uncertain or questionable origin in popular American culture." [Wikipedia page on Snopes]
    • "Forwarding a petition through e-mail duplicates the names of hundreds and thousands of earlier signatories as each recipient adds his name and then fans out his copy to multiple acquaintances." [Snopes]
    • "[W]e'd have to classify this petition as largely ineffective and pointless." [ibid]
    • "In a nutshell, the amendment referenced above wasn't about "giving illegal aliens Social Security benefits"; it was about whether formerly illegal aliens (who had since become legal) should be credited for monies they themselves had paid into the Social Security fund while they were in the U.S. illegally. The senators listed above did not vote in favor of this proposition; they voted to withdraw the amendment from consideration." [Snopes]
  • A factcheck.org article debunks this Republican campaign strategy.
    • "The measure has become a popular campaign issue for Republicans, particularly incumbent House members who raise it against their Democratic challengers. We have counted 29 GOP ads attacking Democrats with various versions of this misleading claim. Similar misconceptions about the measure were spread as part of a chain e-mail last spring and summer." [factcheck.org]
    • FactCheck.org is a nonprofit website that describes its own goal as "[reducing] the level of deception and confusion in U.S. politics". In its efforts, FactCheck claims to be nonpartisan. It is a project of the Annenberg Public Policy Center of the Annenberg School for Communication at the University of Pennsylvania, and is funded primarily by the Annenberg Foundation." [Wikipedia page on factcheck.org]

Additional research:

I did a search on THOMAS, a search engine from the Library of Congress, with parameters "Work/Phrase: social security illegal, all members of congress, all committees, all stages of legislative process, for all dates of introduction, and all types of bills" for the 110th Congress and found:

1. [110th] H.R.98 : To amend the Immigration and Nationality Act to enforce restrictions on employment in the United States of unauthorized aliens through the use of improved Social Security cards and an Employment Eligibility Database, and for other purposes.
Sponsor: Rep Dreier, David [CA-26] (introduced 1/4/2007) Cosponsors (32)
Committees: House Ways and Means; House Judiciary; House Homeland Security; House Education and Labor
Latest Major Action: 5/9/2007 Referred to House subcommittee. Status: Referred to the Subcommittee on Workforce Protections.

2. [110th] H.R.736 : To amend title II of the Social Security Act to exclude from creditable wages and self-employment income wages earned for services by aliens illegally performed in the United States and self-employment income derived from a trade or business illegally conducted in the United States.
Sponsor: Rep Rohrabacher, Dana [CA-46] (introduced 1/30/2007) Cosponsors (26)
Committees: House Ways and Means
Latest Major Action: 2/7/2007 Referred to House subcommittee. Status: Referred to the Subcommittee on Social Security.

3. [110th] H.R.2954 : To strengthen enforcement of immigration laws, and gain operational control over the borders of the United States, and for other purposes.
Sponsor: Rep King, Peter T. [NY-3] (introduced 7/10/2007) Cosponsors (56)
Committees: House Judiciary; House Homeland Security; House Ways and Means; House Education and Labor; House Oversight and Government Reform
Latest Major Action: 9/11/2007 Referred to House subcommittee. Status: Referred to the Subcommittee on Workforce Protections.

4. [110th] H.R.4073 : To amend title II of the Social Security Act to provide for the issuance of Social Security cards with enhanced security features, to provide that wages earned, and self-employment income derived, by individuals while such individuals were not citizens or nationals of the United States and were illegally in the United States shall not be credited for coverage under the old-age, survivors, and disability insurance program under such title, and to provide for the issuance of Social Security cards to illegal aliens, and for other purposes.
Sponsor: Rep Carter, John R. [TX-31] (introduced 11/5/2007) Cosponsors (4)
Committees: House Ways and Means
Latest Major Action: 11/5/2007 Referred to House committee. Status: Referred to the House Committee on Ways and Means.

5. [110th] S.699 : A bill to prevent the fraudulent use of social security account numbers by allowing the sharing of social security data among agencies of the United States for identity theft prevention and immigration enforcement purposes, and for other purposes.
Sponsor: Sen Allard, Wayne [CO] (introduced 2/28/2007) Cosponsors (3)
Committees: Senate Judiciary
Latest Major Action: 2/28/2007 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Read twice and referred to the Committee on the Judiciary.

6. [110th] S.AMDT.2358 to H.R.2669 Relative to illegal aliens qualifying for Social Security benefits.
Sponsor: Sen Stabenow, Debbie [MI] (introduced 7/19/2007) Cosponsors (None)
Latest Major Action: 7/19/2007 Amendment SA 2358 ruled out of order by the chair.

7. [110th] S.AMDT.3352 to H.R.3043 To prohibit the use of funds to process claims based on illegal work for purposes of receiving Social Security benefits.
Sponsor: Sen Ensign, John [NV] (introduced 10/18/2007) Cosponsors (2)
Latest Major Action: 10/23/2007 Senate amendment agreed to. Status: Amendment SA 3352 agreed to in Senate by Yea-Nay Vote. 92 - 2. Record Vote Number: 388.

Only the last bill has been voted on (near unanimously I might add) all others are referred to committees. A read of the summaries shows that they all are either unrelated or opposite to the spirit of the chain email, as they restrict the ability of illegal immigrates to receive Social Security (though I am not a lawyer). The last listed bill was sponsored by Ensign, John- (R - NV), cosponsored by Sessions, Jeff- (R - AL) and Barrasso, John- (R - WY), notice all the Republican names, and remember that the vote was near unanimous. (Actually, I couldn't believe it when I finally tracked down the vote record. Democrats: 44 Yes, 0 No, and 5 not voting. Independants: 2 Yes. Republicans: 46 Yes, 2 No, those being Chuck Hagel and Richard Lugar, and 1 Not Voting.) This is actually appears to be the amendment from 2006 which was Tabled, not voted down, until it was finally added now. If this ever was an issue, its moot now. I would add, due to the swing towards the Democrats in the 2006 election and the dubiousness of the original attacks, I doubt if there was any pressure to affirmatively on this amendment, though one would have to ask the Senators involved.

Appendix:

Chain Email source which prompted this response [names and advertisements redacted]:

Subject:
Fw: Social Security Changes
From: [redacted]
Date:
Mon, 17 Mar 2008 15:50:23 -0400
To:

SOCIAL SECURITY CHANGES

It does not matter if you personally like or dislike Bush. You need to sign this petition and flood his e-mail box with e-mails that tell him that, even if the House passes this bill, he needs to veto it. It is already impossible to live on Social Security alone. If the government gives benefits to 'illegal' aliens who have never contributed, where does that leave those of us who have paid into Social Security all our working lives?

As stated below, the Senate voted this week to allow 'illegal' aliens access to Social Security benefits.
Attached is an opportunity to sign a petition that requires citizenship for eligibility to that social service.

Instructions are below. If you don't forward the petition and just stop it, we will lose all these names.

If you do not want to sign it, please just forward it to everyone you know.

Thank you!

To add your name, click on 'forward'. Address it to all of your email correspondents, add your name to the list and send it on.


When the petition hits 1,000, send it to comment@whitehouse.gov


PETITION for President Bush:



Dear Mr President:
We, the undersigned, protest the bill that the Senate voted on recently which would allow illegal aliens to access our Social Security. We demand that you and all Congressional representatives require citizenship as a pre-requisite for social services in the United States.

We further demand that there not be any amnesty given to illegals, NO free services, no funding, no payments to and for illegal immigrants.

We are fed up with the lack of action about this matter and are tired of paying for services to illegals.

1. [redacted]
[redacted, gap here of 895 names]
897.

If you don't forward the petition and just stop it, we will lose all these names.
If you do not want to sign it, please just forward it to everyone you know.
Thank you! Just think every time that the list hits 1,000 in all the forwarded e-mails, this petition will be sent not just by a thousand petitioners, but rather THOUSANDS of petitioners!

To add your name, click on 'forward'. Address it to all of your email correspondents, add your name and send it on.

1000th signer... please e-mail to:
comments@whitehouse.gov



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